White nights

[Worm]

I have finally found "White Nights" in dutch here in Belgium.  I went to another library.
I have just read half of it, i have ended at where Nastenjka is going to tell her story.  Don't spoil it yet for me, plz.
I'll probably have read all of it in the next day, or the day after that.

I like very much what i have read so far.  What do you all think of it?

What is the reason of our hero's gloominess, that arises in the beginning of the novel?  I regard it as a beginning conscienscness of the bad sides of the situation that he is in at that time ... a consciounsness which must have arisen in him earlier, but that always stayed at that, and never resulted in anything serious.  It starts with that ... and now he meets Nastjenka, and out of that will probably come a change.  I assume he will not be the same man as depicted in the beginning of the novel (until he meets her) at the end of the novel, but some change has happened.

[Mitya]

I really liked White Nights, it's one of my favorites of the shorter stories by Dostoevsky.

I haven't read it in a while, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

I'd have to take another look at the book to offer any ideas on reasons for the hero's gloominess. The impression that has stayed with me was that he's naturally melancholy, and reacts to things very sensitively and deeply.

[Worm]

I've finished it a few weeks ago.  Great book.

The book revolves around the main character (forgot name) and delivers a portrait of him.  That's what the book is about.
So, it's about our lonely dreamer .. who dreams about the day when all people will be good ..

[Yemelyan]

That's an interesting take on White Nights.  I had a very different interpretation when I read it.   It almost sounds to me like you're talking about  The Dream of the Rediculous Man.  I thought White Nights was more about being glad for having at least one genuinely happy moment - no matter how fleeting it may be.

[Worm]

You are interpreting only a part of the book, and leave other parts unnoticed, in my opinion.  The book is indeed about that, but it's also about more.
The main subject is the psychology of this dreamer.  He dreams of a world in which the people some day will be good, but at the same time he isn't much better than the other people because he just lives in isolation.  If he would come out, he would probably 'expire' as well, because he is obviously a weak person.  Instead of doing something about his loneliness and generally bad situation, he just sits back and is bored.  Among other things, he spends his time imagining the houses can talk.  And even his maid is there right in front of him, and she is much older than him, and she is also a bit rotten, and it still doesn't get thrue to him that that person right there in front of him, right there in his room, is most likely going to be himself in the future.
And then he meets Natasha (correct name?), and they empty their hearts to each other, and she might be able to help him .. and then the other guy comes, and she drops him like a brick - and he lets it happen, the sponge.  Pathetic.  That is a character trait that is fundamental to the negativity of his current life - he can't stand up for himself and claim something.  The sponge just lets himself be squeezed, and lays back.

The general structure of the book is as follows, in my eyes:
Begin: the dreamer.  His life in gloom.  The impression is given that his entire life uptil this point has been like that.
Middle: his encounter with Natasha.  He starts to get hope.  A little bit of light.
Ending: hope is squashed by Natasha leaving him.  The light goes out.  Back to where he was in the beginning: in gloom.  And the impression is given that he will stay like that for the rest of his life.


It's really a great book.

Didn't you have other thoughts about the book?


How does my view on white nights that i gave in my previous post resemble 'the dream of the ridiculous man'?  Not only because i mentioned that the main character is the dreamer, and that that parallels with 'the DREAM of the ridiculous man'?  A dreamer isn't somebody that dreams a lot, in the sense of sleeping, but is somebody that uses his imagination and thought a lot.
The two books differ greatly in my opinion because White Nights delivers a portrait of the dreamer, and the dream of the ridiculous man is about the mysterious prophetic dream somebody has, and less about the psychology of that man.  That is an entirely different subject.

I think one of the reasons that our views on White Nights differ so greatly is that I stop reading at the end of each chapter, and then repeat and skim over the chapter for at least a quarter of an hour - and then i go to the next chapter.

[Yemelyan]

I can definitely see how we would have different interpretations after seeing how you read.  I read white nights the completely opposite way.  Being a short story a just read it all at one go about a month ago and have just paroused it since.

I think where we differ most is in the ending of the story.  If I understand you right you believe that the hero began in gloom, was brought into a higher place with Nastasya, and then after her leaving him he returns to his original state.  Where I differ with you is that I don't think it's possible for him to go back to how he was - at least in a spiritual sense.  He might go back to his isolation, but that beautiful moment with Nastasya will remain with him forever and he will be able to reflect on it with joy.  

The part about your post that I thought resembled The Dream of a Rediculous Man is when you say the hero of White Nights dreams of a day when all people are good.  That reminds me of the Dream because he sees the perfect paradise that he himself destroys, but after having this dream he preaches that such a paradise is possible - so as you say he dreams of a time when all people are good.  I don't think the character of White Nights particularly cares about other people because of his isolation.

[Worm]

Thanks for your nice reply.

I disagree with you that the dreamer ends the story in the same way as how he was in the beginning.  You say that he has become higher in a spiritual sense because he had a happy moment, and that will stay forever with him.  
Now we are wandering into the terrain of the spiritual.  I disagree that he ends higher spiritually at the end.  The few happy moments he had expire, as happy moments do.  When i laugh over a good joke, or rejoice inwardly over a beautiful moment, i don't stick into that mode forever - it drifts away (unfortunately), and other things come.  He is not permanently spiritually elevated thrue his experience with Natasha.  It is not like that in real life either, and this short story is realism.  He has a good memory of it, though, and it might bring a smile to his face when he thinks back about it/when he reflects back on it with joy - but that isn't spiritual elevation.  He has probably had nice moments in the past, before meeting Natasha, but they haven't elevated him permanently.  They have all drifted away.
The light of his experience with Natasha drifts away at the end, and he goes back into his gloom.

I understand how you see the parallel between white nights and the dream of the ridiculous man.
I think he does care about his fellow man, but in a limited degree .. i do believe his dreams are meant, and that they aren't unrealistic fantasies.  I think that if he wouldn't have such a weak character, he would definitly behave entirely diffferent, and then his concern for his fellow man would surface more.

What do you think of the psychology of the dreamer?  What is your view on the guy?

[Yemelyan]

Are you asking about the psychology of dream of a rediculous man, or the character from white nights?

In the case of white nights I look at him as an admirable character which is probably the point where we disagree the most in this story because both of our interpretations will take a very different form if we come from such differing opinions concerning the hero of the story.  

Psychologically this character to me seems to represent an almost Buddhist philosophy.  The essence of the noble truths are that suffering comes from desire and in order to remove suffering one must remove desire.  I think this character embodies that in how easily he gives up Nastasya.  I don't think he was a pushover.  If I were in his place yes I probably would have made a huge deal out of it and lamented her leaving.  But he is able to get over it because as he says "My God, a whole moment of happiness! Is that too little for the whole of a man's life?"

The rediculous man I feel pity for because he seems to feel so badly about himself.  He envisions himself ruining a perfect utopia, he is the fallen one.  He takes all the depravity of humanity and projects it all onto himself.  That's why at the end when he longs to change humanity he is in essence trying to change himself.

[Worm]

I mean the psychology of the man of White Nights, not of the Dream of the Ridiculous Man.  The topic is about White Nights.

Let me see if i understand what you typed there:
You find the dreamer from White Nights  an admirable character because he behaves in a Buddhist-like way (in your eyes).  He removes suffering by letting Nastasy go - he lets his desire for it go, and hence his suffering goes.  So, he has less suffering.  He is thus admirable because he reduces his own suffering.  You admire him for being able to overcome that - you say you would have made a big deal out of it, but HE, this guy, gets over it - so, he is stronger, in a way, than you are (even though he is fictional and you are real).
... So you are a follower of the Buddhist philosophy?
Right?  Is that what you are saying?


I'm not going into your paragraph about the ridiculous man because i'm not very acquainted with the book, and this topic is also about White Nights, and not about 'The Dream of the ridiculous man'.

[Yemelyan]

Well I wouldn't say I'm a follower of Buddhist philosophy.  I just find that part of it admirable in this case.  I don't find it admirable in all cases because then I think people will walk all over you.  But in matters of the heart and romance, as illustrated in this story, I don't see any other options for this man.  Yes he could have lost his temper and yelled at  Nastasya and made her feel bad or he could have cursed them all, but in the end he would have ended in the same place without Nastasya.   Do you think he was foolish to get involved with her to start with?  I think he knew that she didn't love him the whole time and so he was just enjoying the time with her he had while knowing that it would come to an end.

[Hungry Year]

White Night is great!
In the end ,It's hard to tell whether the man would change his psychology  or not after the stuff he shared with Nastasya

About the man being a Buddhist,Which means he would end up continuing  to live his life in his head,only making his life more miserable .

But if the man turn to the Christianity,I think he would properly recover from his ridiculous psychology.

Buddhism  or  Christianity?the latter of course.

 

[yu-huang]

Yemelyan: I feel your pain  

[jakedarobot]

This is as of last week my favorite short story.  It is beautiful, every single word.  Are there ties between this and NFTU, i think i see a few, maybe a nod to the prostitute?
ahhhh but it contrasts it really well too.... hmm d- you do escape me.

[lerik]

Beautiful and really moving.Though I liked "The poor folk" more (I readf these two stories in one summer,one after another)

[highseas]

     FD has a way of developing characters that often makes me chuckle which would lead me to believe that his sense of humor sometimes seeps through his prose even when the subject may be serious.
     "White Nights" strikes me as being semi-autobiographical.  The story has a common premise that everyone has probably experienced, namely the story of someone who falls in love but the love is not returned.
     FD's development of this story is masterful (of course).