Russian vs American Lit

[MikeK]

There's this great passage in the Robert Frost poem 'New Hampshire':

...How are we to write
The Russian novel in America
As long as life goes so unterribly?
There is the pinch from which our only outcry  
In literature to date is heard to come.
We get what little misery we can
Out of not having cause for misery.
It makes the guild of novel writers sick
To be expected to be Dostoievskis
On nothing worse than too much luck and comfort.

Any thoughts?  Is this an accurate depiction of Russian lit.?  You know the cliche, dark, miserable, suffering, etc.  Is this what makes Russian lit so great? Is what Frost talks about the reason why Russian lit is considered better than American lit?

As for me, the one American novel that rises to Dostoevsky's level is 'Moby Dick'.  I've not yet read another.  As for something other than novelists, Poe's short stories are also great, and in some sense 'Russian' (Is that why I think they're great?).

Well, I just found that passage interesting (and insightful) and thought I'd throw those questions out there.

[MikeK]

Just in case that brief passage peaked any interest in the poem, this is the passage that immediately follows (also very good):

This is not sorrow, though; it's just the vapors,
And recognized as such in Russia itself
Under the new regime, and so forbidden.

If well it is with Russia, then feel free    
To say so or be stood against the wall
And shot. It's Pollyanna now or death.
This, then, is the new freedom we hear tell of;
And very sensible. No state can build
A literature that shall at once be sound
And sad on a foundation of well-being.


The 'new regime' he's referring to is, of course, the Communist one.

The poem ends thusly:

Well, if I have to choose one or the other,
I choose to be a plain New Hampshire farmer
With an income in cash of, say, a thousand
(From, say, a publisher in New York City).      
It's restful to arrive at a decision,
And restful just to think about New Hampshire.
At present I am living in Vermont.

[TheFernando]

russian lit is a thousand times better than american lit can ever hope to be, period. that being said, God Bless America!

[tzar]

   stereotypes, stereotypes once again.  russia is not a country/place of constant suffering.  the truth is, russians are never happy with anything, that's why they just love to complain.  but the way the West is eager to perseive russians as victims is  funny.

[kudzai]

As an Englishman and with my hand on my heart, I'd say that  American literature kept the English language alive in the twentieth century. I would be lost without the greats like Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, Robert Frost or even the relative 'lightweights' like F Scott Fitzgerald and JD Salinger.

The 'comparative game' is a little unfair because of the sheer volume of Russian nineteenth century literature; but, to me, economy can be a thing of greatness and beauty - personally, I think Salinger's Seymour: An Introduction to be the most miraculous 60 odd pages in twentieth century literature. A definitive lesson in economy!

Dostoevsky and Pushkin aside, I'd take the writers mentioned above over the likes of Gogol, Turgenev, Tolstoy etc. Of course, this is just my culturally conditioned opinion because the writers I have a preference for write in my native language - this begs the question what is my point? Well, my point is all comparison is worthless, especially so when it crosses cultural divides.

[tzar]

american literature is not inferior [shame i've never read anything of it],  it's only that it belongs to 20th century, to the period of spiritual crisis.

[MikeK]

Everyone replying in this thread is referring to 20th century American lit.  Where are my 19th century American lit junkies?  Will no one speak for Melville, Hawthorne, Cooper, Twain, Poe?  Not to mention the poets.  I've always found the 19th century to be the best time for American literature (as well as Russian and British).

[TheFernando]

Honestly, I've never really cared for any of the 19th century american authors.  Poe's Pit and the Pendulum is some dope stuff, but I've read Moby Dick ect. and found all those books lacking the depth that comes with Russian or French Lit like Victor Hugo.  Peace to all!

[Dillon]

Like Kudzai said (or implied in my mind), comparison often ends fruitlessly when real effort is applied because the cultural gap between the two subjects. So little survives when two drastically different kinds of substance try to mix with one another, and superficialities are going to be the main kind of product.

But nevertheless, I'll try to put the two together. So much of American literature is composed of the exploration of social advances through the perception of the individual, most frequently through technology and government, whereas Russian literature (what little I've experienced) seems to be composed of the exploration of individual advances towards the finding of our common humanity, and the exploration of what appears to us in the modern day as the simplest implication of structure, technology, and government.  Don't get me wrong; American literature is more than adept at exploring the individual, but the 'individual' is in more of a contrast to the collective.

[axon]

there is a really great essayist that compares literature from different countries (and even times) and shows what they are all about. His names is Philip Rahv and the book I have (printed in '49) is called "Image and Idea" - he also wrote extensively on Dostoevsky. Check it out!

[MikeK]

Thanks for the tip.  I had read some of his stuff on Dostoevsky, but I didn't know about "Image and Idea".  It sounds interesting.

[axon]

I doubt very much it is still in print - might have to hunt him down in a used book store, or perhaps someone on amazon marketplace will have a copy.

[lerik]

In every culture there were great writers.America's history is relatively young,compared to Europen countries,which is why it might seem to some people that American literature is 'inferiour'.

[torch7777]

Writers such as Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Proust, Kafka, Joyce, Hardy and Mann are all in their own class. Nevertheless, American writers such as Hawthorne, Melville, Emerson and Dickinson write with candor and grace. Writers need to be evaluated on an individual basis. Although, many American writers succumbed to become Minimalists during the 20th century.

[Radio Saturday]

As Torch7777 said, great writers are in a class by themselves, regardless of language, country or time period. It's simply unfair to compare anyone else to them, both to the great authors -- it diminishes their work -- and to the one being compared to them, since they really can't compete. Unless, of course, the writer being compared to the greats is a great himself, in which case all bets are off.

However, on the topic of American versus Russian literature, as Lerik said, America is a very young contry compared to the countries of Europe, with an equally young literary tradition. But I think it's fair to compare even 20th century writers -- Dos Passos is one of my favorites -- with earlier writers how have captured, perhaps not the spirit of their country, but certainly an aspect of it at a certain time.