Nietzschie's atheism

[underworld men]

Courage comes from grace, grace is the fusion of man with the spirit of God.
The price of grace is the submission of freewill, by freewill to the spirit of God.

Fusion with what? The spirit of god. I find this cant, and a major cop-out.

Copout. You might as well have posted just plan gibberish. How is giving oneself to a higher cause or meaning (rather you agree it is or not) a cop out? Hey I can answer that one- it isn't. Wasting peoples' time


Besides, submission is cowardice.

And obstinance is courage, please. Next you'll be telling me up is down and forward is sideways. Oh wait that IS THE PROBLEM.


There is no courage in quietism.

And there is no quiet courage? This is more Harry silliness.


Remember that saying about having the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, having the courage to change the things we can, and wisdom always to be able to tell the difference. So perhaps there is wisdom in quietism. But in any case wisdom doesn't equal courage.

I remember that saying that grace under fire is courage but didn't Hemmingway kill himself out of the hopelesness and meaninglessness of existence. You could never relate  could ya?

You did ask me first about Nietzsche. I gave you a few quotations--nothing conclusive to be sure--but enough to show he was a pretty secular guy. If this isn't enough, then so be it.

You say angry bitter things get treated with alittle confrontation and then make comments like its hopeless to even try. Whiney Harry whiney..

[Childe Harold]

Sure I can relate to Hemmingway. He didn't believe in God and was pathologically depressed (suicide ran in his family). I of course pity him for this, as I do anyone in his condition. But I don't view suicide as in anyway relevant to courage or cowardice. If living is truly too hard bear, then killing yourself is really the only option, a selfish option maybe, but perhaps the one act of selfishness we're allowed. Anyway, in response to what you say, I think submission or resignation can be a very noble and dignified attitude--i'm thinking of the Stoics here, and of Hume's essay on Suicide--so no, I can relate, very much so.

P.S. I like the Stoicism of your "quiet courage." The Stoics though, remember, were different from the Quietists in their emphasis on responsibility. Thus a man with wife and kid to support who kills himself because he finds life too much is a coward, but Hemmingway shooting himself in the head at the age of 60-something, or Freud asking his doctor to give him that extra shot of morphine because the pain in his mouth was too great, is courageous. Although perhaps noble is the better word. Well what difference does it make? Either way they and those in their position are choosing death with the certainty that there is nothing after it, over the perpetuation of a life without hope. It also seems to me that suicide takes more courage with the knowledge that there is no God--no metaphysical encore or heaven or any of that nonsense. Although maybe it doesn't take more courage, since the hopelessness is tempered by the absence of anything to fear. Anyway, do you agree with me about the idea of responsibility in the above?

[underworld men]

Feeling alittle guilty Harold after your hateful spiteful comments on the other thread? Feeling the need to maybe cool it and act alittle more civil in your tone now.

Well it's funny how rage causes the truth to come out. Just like I stated from the beginning. You know so many have went your path before. You offer nothing new.

There is of course an alternative but it takes an irrational act of courage. It's called a leap of faith. Yes one must choose of freewill to believe, not out of necessity, but out of choice.

[Childe Harold]

Cheap as ever underworld. Taking my generosity as a way to get even. Pathetic.

Your leap of faith is no alternative. It is a low and craven way out--no matter how well versed in the repertoire of religious apology you are.

Oh and as for hateful spiteful comments, rest assured they are always, always, in earnest.  

[underworld men]

Cheap as ever underworld. Taking my generosity as a way to get even. Pathetic.

The only thing pathetic is your death wish against religious people.

Your leap of faith is no alternative. It is a low and craven way out--no matter how well versed in the repertoire of religious apology you are.

Your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Oh and as for hateful spiteful comments, rest assured they are always, always, in earnest.  

But you are not entitled to post them on this forum. You can take it somewhere else. Rest assured you keep posting defamatory comments  your posts will be deleted as a first step. Either keep the postings of a civil discourse and defamatory, hateful free or they will be deleted. And spare me the free speech dribble. No one is suggesting atheists be institutionalized or murdered or put into the gulag. Spare me what you might wager and now engage in civil postings are don't bother.

Now I will remind you

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You can post without the hateful insults. I have people close to me who suffered the harvest of sorrow and other atheists ugliness so spared me the hypocritical defense.

[slicingbike]

what does yabb stand for

[underworld men]

what does yabb stand for

http://www.yabbforum.com/

[slicingbike]

yet another bulletin board?

[underworld men]

Correct.

[Worm]

Reading the last page of this topic, I think this is really getting out of hand and going way to far.  
We should be able to discuss things, without getting personal or nasty at each other - and accept differences of opinions.
I'm not mixing in discussing who is right or not in this topic, and I think it's best to simply leave this matter where it is, and go on to other things.

That's just my 2 cents.

[underworld men]

Reading the last page of this topic, I think this is really getting out of hand and going way to far.  
We should be able to discuss things, without getting personal or nasty at each other - and accept differences of opinions.
I'm not mixing in discussing who is right or not in this topic, and I think it's best to simply leave this matter where it is, and go on to other things.

That's just my 2 cents.

Agreed.

[Mogwai]

Childe Harold, I expect you to tone it down or I might have to bring out the ban hammer.  

Please IM me if you have any questions.

[Childe Harold]

Yeah yeah tell underworld that too. I repay underworld in kind for the manner in which he speaks to me. This will not change. If I end up being banned, this is quite alright. I'd sooner forgo membership to this site than my self-respect.

[RomanRussia]

 Only by a special cultivation of vice such as was carried on in these establishments, could a Russian be brought to the state of these tramps, who excelled Nietzsche’s newest teaching, holding everything allowable and nothing forbidden, and spreading this teaching, first among the convicts and then among the people in general.

 
 The Prison System (From “Resurrection”) By Leo Tolstoy 

 A kid with the ball and the titan, the mountain - man