Reality vs. Intuition

[linz]

Reality is what is, it is as concrete as laws of physics and mathematics. But everything aquired in a human mind outside of the study of the decisive laws is intuition. Just as a scholar of music might become bias, therefore fill intuitive about which composers were actually the best throughout Western Theory, we all decide whether we like a work of fiction depending on our aptitute for the writers technique and the character's intuition being beguiling to our own intuition. Is there any way to make intuitive things concrete?

[Secret Smile]

Why would you want/need to?

[Worm]

In your thinking,
do you say "intuition" is a part of reality, or not?  ... since you say in the first sentence that reality is clear and concrete and operates with decisive laws ... is this "intuition" a part of these laws or not?


I totally disagree on reality being concrete and clear.  Man is still recon-aissing reality, if you ask me.  The physical isn't the entire reality.

[linz]

Everything in the human mind can be labeled intuitive, because it is at the heart of everyones personal reasoning. It is in a sense as though the whole world and all of its people have great wounds they've accumultaed which has made the predetermind to rank everything in a method specific to what they thought logical, yet without exploring fully in what social positionings and disadvantages it was that fisilitated these beginnings of mature thought. Therefore every man and women is simply a greivious soar accumulating nagging wounds all their days, and claiming for the sake of pride that it was their individuality when it was scarpes and bruises of chance and nothing more.

[Secret Smile]

You remind me of Lebedev from The Idiot. Let's see if he gets it.  

[Worm]

I disagree again with you, Linz.  
I believe people do explore fully what facilitated the beginnings of mature thought.  

Don't you?


And I also disagree on your naive superficial overgeneralization of every man and woman simply being a grievous soar accumulating "nagging" wounds all their days.  This affirms my point that reality isn't always very clear and that it is easy to debate what is really there and what isn't.

[Worm]

Oh and i forgot to mention that i also disagree with your statement of everything in the human mind being intuitive because it is at the heart of everyones personal reasoning (if at least, you really do believe in this idea, since you use the word 'can', instead of 'is', which puts your words in quite a fog, if you ask me).  I can think rationally and on purpose... which isn't intuitive at all, but which is steered and directed.

And i also disagree on the use of your argument of 'at the heart of everyones personal reasoning' as being valid to prove that everything in the human mind is intuitive.
... if at least, that is what you meant, because you used the word 'can', instead of 'is', which means that you actually don't believe at all in what you said (in only that one sentence of course, and not everything you said (which would make you look like quite a fool, if you ask me!)).

[linz]

You're correct Butterfly, I am a fool, it is simply too bad you can't realize that everyone is. I foresee one day you'll wake up and realize you never knew anything; Just wait until you have been utterly emptied of assumption and your former oppinions are like a robe of sackcloth your damned to fasion. The strangest thing is how most Dostoevsky fans flaunt around in the bleakness of his work without realizing the suffering soul not a morsal, a hair, or a mouse fart!

[Worm]

Here's a picture for your icon, linz







I sense the effort of the grinding of your personal thinking up of all of these ideas in you, and the shine of pride that flew through it, and that's really great, but i do believe you'll have to speed up your own thinking if you want to have anything to say about reality... instead of proudfully holding on to some stuff you thought up just that one time.

And I didn't call you a fool actually in my post, but you did read it that way, and then you even called yourself a fool... so... who's the fool now?



But my apologies, we're derailing from the subject, and we're touching on the subjective here... and that's not where I want to go... and I'm sure that feeling is mutual, no?


... And, i did touch more points than your being-not-a-fool, so why don't you answer those?

And i also want to know why you believe per-se in that my former opinions will someday be like a robe of sackcloth and how i flaunt around in the bleakness of his work, and so on, and so on?  Did you ask me about this, or is this just a hasty overgeneralisation and pure prejudice?
Please elaborate, and feel free to illuminate and reveal the mysteries to me, master Linz.

[linz]

I can't explain it any better than the curse of reason in an unreasonable world. Maybe I was being a touch negative with my 'wounds' crap. But it is true, we all start to die inside once we find out the world sucks and we are going to return to the nothingness that was our existence before birth. I judge no one because I can't walk in their shoes; I can only walk in my own shoes, and hadn't a clue even how to go about that. That's reality for you!

[Secret Smile]

Did you ever think that not everyone is as confused as you are, Linz? Or are you just universalizing your childish concept of reality?

[writingluver5]

Reality is a very difficult concept to explain. (I have to make this a quick post, so perhaps I will come to edit it later. )

I believe it was Butterfly who made a point that just because it is physical does not mean that it's reality. That is absolutely correct. Reality can be further broken down into two things: concrete and abstract. Something concrete, such as a touch of the hand or seeing the glory of the sky can't not be called  reality. Other things, though, such as love, happiness, and joy are abstract things.

Someone mentioned that everything in the human mind can be labeled intuitive. I will have to disagree with that. For example, love can be one, two, or all of three things: physical, mental, or emotional. Those are the three psychological states, and love encompasses all of them. Love, as an abstract word that can't ever properly be defined, can't be intuitive simply because: (1.)it has to do with more than the mind and (2.)if it were intuitive, then how do people fall out of love and in love? Do they think (or say), "Hmm, now seems like a good time to fall in love," and do it? Do they go with their intuition on it? I can safely say, from (hopefully) having experienced love, that there was NO WAY it came from my intuition. (I didn't even consider the guy at first!) It was a choice I made. Some argue that your intuition is a choice (which is correct), but intuition is almost a strange fancy that you have a "gut feeling" you should go with (at least that's how I experience it).

Love is also a reality. Just look at the millions of people around you who are experiencing it. Reality is tied in with intuition because your intuition can help you determine what your reality would be.

Why, you may ask, did I just completely go on a tangent about love? Well, it's the greatest mystery in the world that no one has (or will) ever figure out. The original question was if intuition can be made reality. No, it can't; but the decisions you make through your intuition determine your reality.

If you need me to clarify anything, let me know!

In Dostoyevsky's spirit,
Mary

[linz]

Did you ever think that not everyone is as confused as you are, Linz? Or are you just universalizing your childish concept of reality?

Ms. smiles in the secret places i.e. (Secret Smile), I love to see how you dimiss 'not judging people' as childish considering it is the foundation of wisdom. All the days of my life were empty until I figured out this rule of conduct and started applying it do the whole of all things.

I must admit to being spiritual and having a fair idea of what is good and decent, but at the same time I find myself most often hesitant at blaming people for inconsistency as I see humankind as sort of damned to fail, if you will.

When I observe people anywhere doing anything, I do not start categorizing such as right or wrong, hideous or beautiful, stupid or genius, as it is even lower than the act of a heathen without a conscience to starts categorizing and ranking things and at the same time deign to think they have the slightest clue as to what they're doing; such a person will end up being the laughing stock of all! (If I so do discern it as wrong, stupid, or ugly, it isn't to adorn myself in supremecy from having been so flawless as to be able to discern the truth of things, instead I am mournful that the offense whether wrong, stupid, or ugly hasn't also the same comprehesion or abiltity.)

Nothing is certain here on this earth. I am not saying there isn't such a thing as right and wrong. I'm saying we were all dropped in a meat-grinder since the day we were concieved, therefore don't wish ill on a soul, or think you no the substance of a soul. (I didn't mean the 'meat-grinder' as an accusatory finger pointing at God either as obviously life here could be the natural way to come about understanding even from the greatest to the least of men and their situations.)

"The deceived and the deceiver are His" - Job

[Worm]

I can't explain it any better than the curse of reason in an unreasonable world. Maybe I was being a touch negative with my 'wounds' crap. But it is true, we all start to die inside once we find out the world sucks and we are going to return to the nothingness that was our existence before birth. I judge no one because I can't walk in their shoes; I can only walk in my own shoes, and hadn't a clue even how to go about that. That's reality for you!

It's completely impossible for me to deny that the world and the entire spectrum of human life, sucks, extremely hard... as much as i don't want it to be like that.
i do also see positive sides to it, but there's mountains of negative in it.. at least, in the supposed "adult" life (whatever the f that may be).. the "time of youth" is more relax and easy..
.. so .. anyway ... you're not entirely alone with this..

I often think to myself that man is a complete mistake, because man cannot bear (or comprehend) its own existence.  The limit of the comprehension of man of today, is what kind of shoes go best with what pair of pants.

[Worm]

I believe it was Butterfly who made a point that just because it is physical does not mean that it's reality. That is absolutely correct.

I'm sorry but I didn't say this.  I said:

I totally disagree on reality being concrete and clear.  Man is still recon-aissing reality, if you ask me.  The physical isn't the entire reality.

To clarify: the physical is obviously a part of reality.  It's there.  Period.  
But there is obviously also the abstract.... and it is this part of reality, which man of today is still recon-aissing.
When talking about disagreeing about reality being concrete and clear, i meant the abstract part of reality.  The abstract aspect of reality... is very difficult to pinpoint...

the ocean is so big