Poll: In TBK, do you think Dmitri did it?

[Allanysha]

I want to believe Smed... did it, but someone here pointed out that Dmitri could have done it while temporarily insane, and didn't remember.

[monika]

Smed. himself admits to Ivan that he killed his father. He also blames Ivan for putting the idea of killing F Karamazov.

[Allanysha]

That makes total sense. Smed. seems completely amoral (immoral?) and is extremely insecure about his intelligence, his place in society, and is ashamed of his real mother and father, and feels threatened. He probably feels he needs to prove something, especially to Ivan, who he sort of idolizes. He sounds so proud when he admits the events of the evening, also.

[monika]

Yes, I agree, and even if he told Ivan that he killed F. Karamazov beacause Ivan told him to. I think he also hated F.K. for not admitting him as a real son and making him only the cook.
As a real Karamazov, with money, he could go to France, as he always wanted.
And I think that is part of the reason he doesnt admit the murder in his suicide letter, couse he has no complains, he killed the man who destroyed him.

[Scoundrel]

Dmitri killed the old man... he went to his house, bashed in his "ugly snout", and left without even thinking of the money... Smerdyakov stole the money a few weeks later from it's hiding place in Fyodor's bedroom.

Smerdyakov despised one and all, especially Ivan... he saw Ivan's mental weakness, and helped push him over the edge with his taunting phrases... All Smerdyakov's thought-out words spoken to Ivan, are intended to produce an effect on him; that is, to confuse his already bewildered brain.

Dmitri certainly didn't remember killing the old man, as he surely would have admitted to it after the fact

[monika]

Yeah, but Dmitry IS NOT A KILLER, Alosha said so 2
He was in so much pain thinking of himself as a tief.

[Scoundrel]

Dmitri is a man who gets carried away with his emotions on a daily basis, and is certainly capable of murder... The scene where he severely beats his father, and only stops when he's pulled away, shows this feature of his character well

[Allanysha]

This is really fascinating. Dostoevsky must have wanted it this way. There is no clear-cut answer (I'd love to see a link to a good critical review of this pivotal incident).

I tend to think it was Smed. because Alyosha said it was, and he's the moral fiber of the book. He always seems to be right on. He told Ivan that he (Ivan) didn't kill his father, even though Smed. wanted him to believe he was responsible, and Smed. led Ivan to believe he was, basically, only the messenger. But Smed. does admit to killing F. (why would he admit it and kill himself if he wasn't responsible?).

Dmitri admits to everything he does. He is never so insane that he "blacks out", whether it's beating up the Captain, or beating his father.

I'll stop now. I'm exhausted. I do welcome replies.

[Scoundrel]

Right at the moment when Dmitri is looking at his father's "loathsome face" from the garden, right as he pulls the pestle out of his pocket, there is a gap in the story, indicated by the break in the text:

"There he was, his rival, the man who had tormented him, had ruined his life!"  It was a rush of that sudden, furious, revengeful anger of which he had spoken, as though foreseeing it, to Alyosha, four days ago in the arbour, when, in answer to Alyosha's question, "How can you say you'll kill our father?"  "I don't know, I don't know," he had said then.  "Perhaps I shall not kill him, perhaps I shall.  I'm afraid he'll suddenly be so loathsome to me at that moment.  I hate his double chin, his nose, his eyes, his shameless grin, I feel a personal repulsion.  That's what I'm afraid of, that's what may be too much for me..."  This personal repulsion was growing unendurable.  Mitya was beside himself, he suddenly pulled the brass pestle out of his pocket.


Here is where the gap in the story lies.  The gap that leaves us wondering.  We know that Mitya was "beside himself" and that he hated the mere image of the old man's face.  We know that he took the brass pestle out of his pocket in a "horrible fury of hatred" as he looked at the old man's "loathsome face."  From there we can draw our own conclusions.  I think that he killed the old man while beside himself with hatred, and that he blacked out while doing so.  The fact that there is a break in the text leaves the possibility of Dmitri blacking out, and I don't think it's so far fetched for someone in his mental condition to experience a 'black-out'.

[Scoundrel]

Whether he killed the old man, or just assaulted his servant,  Dmitri deserves jail time.  No matter how likable the character is, he's out of control;  beating Fyodor within an inch of his life just a few days back, dragging the captain around by his beard, smashing Grigory's head with the pestle.  Even if he didn't kill his father this time, there's no doubt that in the future, he'll kill, or at least severely injure, somebody.  He requires a punishment to straighten himself out.  Grushenka's love wouldn't be enough to change Mitya's ways either, as he muses throughout the story.

[Allanysha]

Good point. I think the book is a matter of degrees. Except for the monks (even some monks are accused of jealousy and over-piousness, or pride) and Alyosha, all are guilty of pretty bad sins, in a Christian sense; and although I'm in no way pushing Christianity, it must be taken into account to see the relevance of much that happens.

Most wish the death of F. Most have a motive. Even the children can be hateful and scary; but Illyosha is somewhat of a martyr, as is his poor father.

We're all sinful, I guess, 'cept Alyosha and maybe Father Zosima.

[Scoundrel]

I think the book is a matter of degrees.

that's what I like about this book

It raises so many questions in your mind, and makes you seek the answer to each... and you may never fully find it, but the search is the best part.

[monika]

But in the book there is a part where Dmitry said `God saved me then` meaning that he didn`t kill his father.

[Scoundrel]

But in the book there is a part where Dmitry said `God saved me then` meaning that he didn`t kill his father.

           True, afterwards Mitya did make that statement, but at the moment, he didn't necessarily have that thought.  After we see Mitya take the pestle out of his pocket, there is a portion of time that is omitted from the story, indicated by the break in the text.  Then the narrator picks it back up with:

           "God was watching over me then," Mitya himself said afterwards.


           So... Mitya did make that statement afterwards, but if he had blacked out while committing the act, in a "horrible fury of hatred", he would still have made that statement.

            This portion of the story is intentionally vague, and there is no real way to know for sure exactly what happened

[monika]

but isnt it posible that smedr. did ti?
he confest that he did it and said all the facts the way the wore. he said things he couldnt of known
I think that both of them could of done it.
what do u think?
do u have any strong arguments agents dmitry?