Poor Folk

[Lise]

 Do you guys think that Vavara was as innocent as she seemed?

[ecks]

Well, that all can be argued. As far as her intentionaly trying to use Makar, I don't think that's fair. She is just weak and does not know to do, she considers money as happiness, rather than love. It's pretty messed up how she leaves him by himself, and knows intentionally that he cannot survive without her. I think that's pretty selfish, almost childish.

[Lise]

Maybe, but I'm not sure I believe that whole poor, innocent, orphan, country-lass thing.

[ecks]

Well, I think that's what Dostoevsky was trying to portray. Why else did he include those journal entries of Varvara in the beginning? I think what Dostoevsky was trying to show in Poor People was two people dealing with their poverty. Makar, for instance, only wants love and to be happy for other people, he doesn't care about material things such as money, unlike Varvara.

[Lise]

"Makar, for instance, only wants love and to be happy for other people"

I'm not so sure.  I agree that he is madly in love with vavara, but im not so sure that he only wants happiness for other people.  I think he wants happiness for himself.  Don't you think its kind of strange he keeps on giving her underwear?  I think he wants to marry her and is not happy when she marrys someone else.  Look at that last letter it is pathetic.

I thinks she knows this, how could she not be slightly suspicous. After reading those letters she had to be as dumb as a rock or the most innocent person in the world to not guess at how he felt.
 And the journal thing, I think she might have given him it in sort of a torturous way.  I mean i think she knows he loves him, so she mails him the story of her first love.  Kind of to mock him.  He dosen't write her for a really long time after this, i think he is upset.

i see where you coming from though, its really impossible to say for sure

[ecks]

Yes, the beautiful thing about this story is that it's relative to the person reading it. Makar wants happiness, I should not say for other people, but for Varvara, and therefore wants to win her heart, since a man cannot just shower on gift after gift and except to nothing out of it. Varvara, noticing how old and hopeless he is, decided to leave out of that situation, and leave him be, and all those cries in her letters at the end might have been pretense. But then you wonder, does "Poor People" actually mean, poor as in having no money, or poor as in those that need sympathy.

[Marie-Eugine]

I know this is an old thread but I just finished reading "Poor People".

I think that he wants a relationship, someone to be close to but experience that all the material things also counts. Look at all his fear about how he dresses while at work.

I think at the end that she knows that she will miss him but financial security comes first. I think this has to do with the time they are living in. She does not have many choices as a woman and due to the fact that she is ill.

[Canerican]

"Makar, for instance, only wants love and to be happy for other people"

This story really confuses me because it seems contrary to what Dost believe. What you were refering to, Lise, was a common philosophical issue of the day. He addresses very directly House of the Dead. I can't remember the name of it exactly (sorry), but it is the belief that one is nice to others just to please themselves. Dost did not agree with this, he felt that all kindness had something behind it. So what does Makar want? Why does he want to make others happy? My opinion is this: Poor Folk was Dost's first work, he was probably just trying to appease the mass.

Dost respected Gogol and didn't want to make his mistake of publishing an unpopular first work. If you know the story Gogol's works were badly criticized and so he went out and purchased every copy he found and burned them.

I have my own question about poor Folk. What is the significance of reading and literature within the story itself; and what makes Makar so incoherent?

[adleberg]

I think that the inclusion of literature in the letters is a form of light irony on Dost's part. Makar says that books are considered by society as a silly pasttime but he doesnt care, ironic because this is a work of literature. (sorry cant find the quote)

Also we have to remember this is one of his first works and maybe he is paying homage to the writers he aspires to?

[adleberg]

On the topic of vavara, I beleive Dost sets up a conflict between empathising for vavara when we are shown her sad past and the innocence she expresses in her letters, and the dissaproval we are inclined to give when she leaves Makar.

The pitiful display of devotion on Makar's part even at the very end when she is leaving and he still runs around doing her errands makes us feel bad for Makar and in doing so dissaprove of Vavara's action. The conflict lies in the empathy we have developed for Vavara because of her past misfortune.
I dont believe she is all innocent and I think she uses Makar's devotion knowingly.  

[Cant_Be_Faded]

My friend who introduced me to Dostoevsky says the story is about a power struggle.  He said he thinks the gift giving is a way of exercising power over another, and their reciprocal gestures, while truly based in some form of love, are always calculated.

With this point of view, I believe V knew exactly what she was doing, and was not innocent at all.