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Author Topic: Crime and Punishment  (Read 4059 times)
thecoolkids

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« on: April 27, 2007, 02:18:48 PM »

In Crime and Punishment why do they reference Lazareth’s story, and are there any parallel to it? And what is the new Jerusalem?
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Worm
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2007, 01:15:57 AM »

did you read the book?

crime and punishment is a novel.. it's not just the printing on the back ... you can open these things, and there, on those things they call "pages", is the story of c&p written.
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Liza

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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2007, 05:23:59 AM »

Not sure if there are more than one messages shown through this passage. But it was certainly the case that through this passage, that leads rask to salvation, Dost show the point that religion will triumph over utilitarian reason. Thus, it is fitting that Sonya (the symbol of spirituality) should lead Rask (a utilitarian thinker) to salvation. I also believe he shows the larger debate of the fact that in an urbanising society, he expresses the deeper message of the novel that is the erosion of morality will lead only to irrationality.
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lerik
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2007, 08:51:13 AM »

well,Lazareth died and was brought back to life by Jesus Christ.In Orthodox Church Lazareth is seen as a symbol of the human soul that can be brought back to life by God.The point of reading this extract was to show that Raskolnikov's soul can be 'brought back to life',that he can be part of the society again.
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illinijames

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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 04:44:10 PM »

I think that FD includes the story of Lazarus because it asks one of the (in my opinion) hardest questions for a Christian to answer.  That question is asked by both Mary and Martha and it is (ESV) "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."  Which the question being "Where were you Lord, and why did you not come to help us?"  

I am sure that just about anyone that has ever even contemplated God has had to struggle with this question.  To put in the context of the story.  "Lord, if you are an all powerful and loving God and Sonya is a beloved daughter of your then why must she suffer in dire poverty and prostitution living with no hope?  Lord where are you, why don't you help her, and why does such suffering occur on this earth?"

I believe that that is one reason for the story of Lazarus being included in this book because it poses this ridiculously tough but essential question.

I also think that FD answers this question in the Epilogue.

But I would love to hear what yall think first.



and the new Jerusalem is heaven
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"But if one looks at men in all ways -- are there many good ones left? Why, I am sure I shouldn't be worth a baked onion myself..."
illinijames

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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 08:49:11 PM »

Actually the new Jerusalem is more likely the church, but in heaven.  Of course this is from Revelation, so it hasn't happened yet, and is open to interpretation.


Revelations 21:2
Quote
 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelations 3:12
Quote
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.  
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"But if one looks at men in all ways -- are there many good ones left? Why, I am sure I shouldn't be worth a baked onion myself..."
monika

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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2008, 10:38:01 AM »

lazaret is a man who dies and the comed back for the dead.
same as rodya who is lost and then whit sonja`s help he is saved
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Fathers and teachers, I ponder, "What is hell?" I maintain that it is the suffering of being unable to love.
poor knight

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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2008, 10:41:59 PM »

Illinijames,

Quote
I am sure that just about anyone that has ever even contemplated God has had to struggle with this question.  To put in the context of the story.  "Lord, if you are an all powerful and loving God and Sonya is a beloved daughter of your then why must she suffer in dire poverty and prostitution living with no hope?  Lord where are you, why don't you help her, and why does such suffering occur on this earth?"

Ah... who hasn't struggled with this question? I am a Christian, my father is not. He said to me once, "I am willing to believe in God every time I look at the universe and can accept the idea that it took an omnipotent being to create it. But if He refuses to be all good and allows innocent people to suffer, then I have no time or desire to follow Him."

It is the monumental struggle of humanity's ability to be God's servants. And it is one that FD does not shy away from. C&P is only one example. He has helped me come to terms with this struggle in my own life, although to be honest, it is a struggle that still wracks me when I see the enormous suffering throughout our world.

I have come to believe that first and foremost, we are to follow God because He desires it. The servant serves without regard to his own wants or sense of righteousness. The servant serves because he trusts that his master knows best, even when he doesn't understand the choices his master makes. I believe that Sonya and the many others like her in FD's work, follow God first, because they accept that they are His servants, and that He knows best.

Second, I believe that happiness or its pursuit are not, contrary to my own Declaration of Independence, endowed in me by God. It is probably not a uniquely American thing by any stretch, but it is certainly an American trait, that we feel that our rewards in life should match our merits, good or ill. And that the concept of bad things happening to good or innocent people, is antithetical to the foundations of our society and to the foundations of God's character.

I believe, perhaps, that God, the father, may be more the watchmaker. The one who put this vast and beautiful universe into place and who watches what we do in it a bit form afar, tinkering as necessary to make sure it runs reasonably well, but not perfectly. I believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit  are the father's gifts to us, to help us understand our role in this universe, to guide us when we have to choose one path over another, and to comfort us when our choice, or circumstances beyond our choice, cause us to suffer.

I believe that in suffering and in evil and those things that in our hearts we just do not find to be compatible with a loving God, we are to be His servants and  help to relieve that suffering and fight that evil, as He desires. We are  to find true servanthood in striving to make the world more beautiful than it is, to be a better place because we are in it. It stretches my innate concept of what a Good God is, that He would leave much of that work up to a wholly imperfect and weak servant such as me.

I think this is the fundamental issue that FD forces us to explore in the character of Sonya. Life is our responsibility; good is not always as we would expect it to be defined, God is  "my refuge and my strength" as the psalm goes, but not always there to intercede. We are to follow Him because we are made to be His servants; we are to find joy in adding beauty to a sometimes ugly world. And we are to find comfort in the arms of Jesus, who's sacrifice for the suffering in this world is ultimately meant for us as well.
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Rajeesh

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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 12:36:22 AM »

Hi All

Can anyone tell me who is the narrator in Crime and punishment? ( Dont tell me it is Dostoevsky Grin ...). Or how is the narration done(it seems to be in third person for me).

There is a paragraph towards the end of the novel which goes like this "I can't explain how Razumihin went to Raskolnikov's mother and sister and console them...". Who is the "I" in this... Is it the narrator(ie Dostoevsky....)
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teew

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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2008, 03:48:04 PM »

I often thought the story was narrated at the cafe, toward the beginning of the novel. It sounds like a yarn to be shared with many vodkas and staring eyes. t Shocked
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tee, SQL Programmer  ADP System Admin
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2008, 01:49:33 AM »

it's just an omnipotent narrator
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teew

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Orson Wells, one of the masters of the cinema


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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2008, 03:59:09 PM »

use this site for an answer to the New Jerusalem question...

http://www.123helpme.com/assets/16003.html
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tee, SQL Programmer  ADP System Admin
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