Poll: In TBK, do you think Dmitri did it?

[Scoundrel]

          It's absolutely possible that Smerdyakov killed old man Pavlovitch, perhaps even likely.  I could certainly argue that Dimitri was not guilty of the crime.  I actually chose to accuse Dmitri, because nobody else had done so yet on this thread.  I'm not sure who did it, it really could have been either of them.
          Smerdyakov's  insinuating comments throughout the story, particularly in Part 2, Book Five, chapter 6 (For Awhile a Very Obscure One), and of course his detailed confession in his third, post-murder meeting with Ivan, really bring a solid case against him.
          Here's some excerpts from 'For Awhile a Very Obscure One' that outline the case against Smerdyakov:


          "I'm in an awful position, Ivan Fyodorovitch.  I don't know how to help myself," he said resolutely and distinctly..."
  - With this statement, Smerdyakov is asking Ivan for help, advice, approval, or a favor of some sort.

          "... I feel certain, sir, that I shall have a long fit tomorrow"
          "What do you mean by 'a long fit'?"
          "A long fit, lasting a long time--several hours, or perhaps a day or two."
  - With this exchange, we see Smerdyakov going into further detail with his previous request for help/approval/etc.

          "Do you mean to pretend to be ill tomorrow for three days, eh?"
          Smerdyakov, who was looking at the ground again, and playing with the toe of his right foot, set the foot down, moved the left one forward, and grinning, articulated:
          "If I were able to play such a trick, that is, pretend to have a fit--and it would not be difficult for a man accustomed to them--I should have a perfect right to use such a means to save myself from death."
  - With this exchange, Ivan probes into Smerdyakov's question/proposition deeper, and Smerdyakov reveals his ability, and willingness to follow through with the, as yet vague plan (to fake a fit, and kill Fyodor Pavlovitch, framing Dmitri). Smerdyakov outlines his alibi to the court of law(he'll supposedly be engaged in 'a long fit'), and outlines his justification of the act to his own conscience: To save himself from death by Dmitri, he'll kill the old man, framing Dmitri, sending Dmitri to prison, and effectively elliminating the source of the real, or imagined, threat to his well-being (the source being Fyodor and Dmitri).

          "They'll think I'm an accomplice, because I let him know the signals as a great secret."
  - With this statement, Smerdyakov further outlines the plan, bringing to light more evidence that will be brought against Dmitri--that is, that Dmitri knew about the signals, and therefore, knew how to coax the old man to unlock the house.

          "Confound it! If you are laid up, Grigory will be on the Watch."
          "...as for Grigory... he has been ill since yesterday, and Marfa intends on giving him medicine tomorrow... It's a strong thing, made from some herb... she takes a towel, wets it with the stuff, and rubs his back for half an hour... and what's left in the bottle, she gives him to drink... and she leaves some for herself, and drinks it herself.  And as they never take strong drink, I assure you they both drop asleep at once and sleep sound a very long time... they won't hear anything to hinder Dmitri Fyodorovitch.  They'll be asleep."
          "What a rigamarole!  And it all seems to happen at once, as though it were planned.  You'll have a fit and they'll both be unconscious," cried Ivan.
  - This exchange reveals the final piece of the puzzle, fully exposing the nature of Smerdyakov's insinuated question, making it perfectly clear that if Ivan leaves tomorrow for Moscow, or Tchermashnya, Fyodor Pavlovitch will be murdered, whether by Dmitri, when he no doubt will come, or by Smerdyalov himself, who will be faking a fit.

       So, to lay it all out:  Smerdyakov seeks Ivan for some sort of advice, and using insinuating gestures and allusive comments, slowly reveals his query.  He outlines the fact that he'll be faking a fit tomorrow, that Grigory and Marfa will be unconscious, and that Dmitri will come, with the secret signals, to kill the old man.  The fact that he will be faking a fit, leaves the vague proposition that he himself will kill Fyodor.  With all these facts on the table, Ivan is left with a serious decision: To leave the village tomorrow, abandoning Fyodor to a brutal fate, or to wait one day to leave, when Grigory will be keeping watch, protecting Fyodor from imminent death.  If Ivan leaves tomorrow, at Smerdyakov's prodding, Ivan and Smerdyakov are both guilty of the murder, no matter who actually commits the act.  If Dmitri commits the murder, Smerdyakov and Ivan have cleared the way for a mentally-unstable, enraged lunatic, to follow through with his previously stated, previously attempted, intentions, and all three of them are guilty of murder, or at least of  criminal collusion.  If Smerdyakov commits the murder, Ivan and Smerdyakov are both responsible.  So whichever way you slice it, the hands of Ivan and Smerdyakov are stained with Fyodor Pavlovitch's blood, figuratively speaking.
     Another piece of evidence, which supports Ivan's motive, is his statement to Alyosha earlier on in the story, when he says something like: "Two reptiles will devour each other."

  Ultimately, whether Dmitri or Smerdyakov committed the act, Smerdyakov's justification doesn't quell his conscience and he hangs himself.  As for Ivan, his inner guilt drives him to insanity.

[monika]

so it seems like smedryakov had it all planed. no matter who killed the old man.
Smed. destroyed the whole family, not that there was anything left to destroy. but he did revendged to his father, who didnt give him anything, wheather that was by killin him or leting him to be killed. to his brother ivan making him insane, and his brother dmitry by leting him kill his own father(he could of easily stop him), or if smed. killed the old man, then he punished Dmitry by leting him to go to jail. and as for alyosha, he sufers knowing what hapened to his family. he doesnt have to do anything to hurt him directly.
so no mather who killed the old man, smed. is still guilty. and that is why i would rather think thet he killed him, and not dmirty

[Allanysha]

I think Dost. is trying to say that all the brothers, including Smed. are guilty in some way of the murder; like they all are sinful. The introduction I read sorta stated that (that's why I read Introductions and Forewords AFTER I read the book). I guess Alyosha is to blame for not stopping any of it from happening.

But I still think Smed's. a jerk!

[monika]

i agree about smed beeing a jerk and that dmitry and ivan beeing guilty on some level, but I can not understand alyosha guilt. It's in alyosha's character that he can think that he is guilty too along with his brothers so he can suffer and only trought suffering he can redeem himself, but i still don't think he is guilty of anything. he is kind of naive and how could he had known?
i reed that dost. planed to write another book and this one should be about Alyosha, and that is why TBK is not finished, and the end is not clear. but he dies.
who knows what else could of happened in the next book, even Dost. himself said that the second book is of more importance that the first one.

[Allanysha]

You're right, Monika! Alyosha and Father Zosima are totally pure (the father smelled when he died, but why blame him?).

Too bad there wasn't a sequel. I'd like to follow him more.

[monika]

hey
i know i should probably open new topic but im very much interesed in dostoevskys time in jail waithing for his death
i started reading writer's diary from dostoevsky
and if u know if dostoevsky speaks about his jail time somewhere pls reply
tnx

[Allanysha]

Isn't Memoirs From the House of the Dead at least loosely based on his time in Siberia? I haven't read it.

[monika]

yeah i guess so. tnx
i have that one home, but i have not read it.
there is also in `the idiot` a part where Mishkyn talks aboyt his friend who was waithing for a death sentance

[Kupov]

Dmitri killed the old man... he went to his house, bashed in his "ugly snout", and left without even thinking of the money... Smerdyakov stole the money a few weeks later from it's hiding place in Fyodor's bedroom.

Smerdyakov despised one and all, especially Ivan... he saw Ivan's mental weakness, and helped push him over the edge with his taunting phrases... All Smerdyakov's thought-out words spoken to Ivan, are intended to produce an effect on him; that is, to confuse his already bewildered brain.

Dmitri certainly didn't remember killing the old man, as he surely would have admitted to it after the fact

I agree with everything you said except for Dmitri being the murderer, though it is very possible and even likely that he did.

[Eternal Wife]

DMitry didn't kill his father! it's absolutely clear, but from the beginning it's very hard to not accuse Dmitry.
Dmitry is clear and I love him!!!!

[Dostov]

Obviously it wasn't Dmitry. Remember, Dmitry's character is based on a man Dostoevsky met in Siberia who had been falsely accused and later acquitted of murdering his father.

[Scoundrel]

It can not be known for certain whether Dmitri committed the murder or not.  Dostoevsky never makes that absolutely clear.  Even if he didn't commit this murder, doesn't he deserve some jail-time, for beating the feeble old man within an inch of his life early in the story, and dragging the old captain around by his beard?

He's a wreckless maniac who behaves like a child and has no control over his emotions... really a sad specimen.... No matter how likable the character is, he's a damned mess  

[ivans_nightmare]

Some of you are correct that it doesn't explicitly state that Dmitri committed the murder, but it is foreshadowed and implied throughout the whole novel that Smerdyakov is guilty of the murder. Yes, Dmitri is a wreckless and impulsive person, and very likely had it in him to do the old man in. In fact, he knows this himself and that is why he accepts his punishment in the end.

This is also related to Father Zosima's belief that we are all equally guilty for all of man's sins. One poster above said that Father Zosima and Alyosha were probably the only innocent characters, but Dostoevsky uses Father Zosima to propose the notion that even they are guilty; if they were a more perfect person, then perhaps the sinner would not have been driven to sin. After all, neither is able to prevent the murder from taking place in the first place, and both are relied upon to mediate between the family.

Finally, Ivan also accepts the guilt for the crime, however in a different sense. It was Ivan's philosophy that "if God does not exist, then all is permitted" that provides Smerdyakov with the justification for the murder. In the chapter "The Devil", Ivan is feverish with guilt and comes face-to-face with the consequences of his amoral worldview and eventually, illustrated by his resolution to confess in court, embraces some kind of morality.

[SFG]

Smed. himself admits to Ivan that he killed his father. He also blames Ivan for putting the idea of killing F Karamazov.

Really?  Where was that?

[SFG75]

Never mind, I found the part where he fesses up and blames Ivan's personal philosophy for his actions.